Monday, 25 August 2008

Good news from Brisbane: action at last!

Today really is evidently a very good news day, with Cath News reporting the release of a letter from Archbishop Bathersby dealing with the ongoing festering sore of St Mary's 'Catholic' parish in Brisbane.

St Mary's you will recall, is the parish where huge number of people were not properly baptised over a period of some twenty years, where a Buddhist statue sat in front of the tabernacle for several weeks, and where numerous other abuses continue to be perpetrated.

The Archbishop, it seems, has been asked to report back to Rome on what is happening in response to all of this - hence his letter, which you can read here. It refers to the invalid baptisms, the Buddha affair, and the continuing disrespect the parish accords to the Archbishop and the hierarchy generally. And it points to problems in doctrine, liturgy and governance.

Essentially, the plan seems to be to close down the parish - but the letter notes that the parish is already effectively in schism. According to media reports, the parish is meeting tonight to discuss its response.

So please pray that the priests and laity involved repent and are reconciled to the Church. And for Archbishop Bathersby, as he takes the necessary next steps to deal with this sad situation.

5 comments:

David said...

The folks over at Catholica are going nuts over this.

http://www.catholica.com.au/forum/board_entry.php?id=15845

Honestly, these people are characatures of themselves. It's all about my feeeeeelings!! How dare they! And this gem:

"if John Bathersby is seen as the leader of the radical forces in the Australian church - as apparently he is in certain sections of the Curia - then heaven help the rest of us."

It ain't just the Curia, matey. Some of us seek out an Eastern / Uniate Catholic Church when in Brisbane, to be sure that the Mass is valid!

Then there are comments like "what's wrong with 'papally reprobated liturgical abuse X'; my parish has been doing that for years!". Oh dear.

They smugly assume that low Mass attendance is because we are not all quasi-pagan pseudo-Christians like the St Mary's folks, rather than acknowledging that they are the problem, not the solution.

Then Brian Coyne damns all defenders of orthodoxy to Hell (I think - I'm not sure, because he's ambiguous, and I had previously thought these nitwits didn't believe in Hell):

"all these "busybodies" — and the pathetic individuals in the Curia who have bent over backwards to comfort them and appease their insecurities for so long — will one day have to answer for their actions just as all of us will answer for the decisions we made in our lives. Needless to say I think the reception their actions are going to receive will not be comforting."

"They're spyyyyyinnng on ussss!"



Incidentally, I saw the photo of the PP (Fr Kennedy?) in the Courier Mail, and was reminded that the devotees of this sort of liturgical and theological onanism are like Bugs Bunny - grey and white.

Peter said...

hmm I should restrain myself but I haven't.

David said (amongst other things, but I'll limit comment to this):

"It ain't just the Curia, matey. Some of us seek out an Eastern / Uniate Catholic Church when in Brisbane, to be sure that the Mass is valid!"

I can't say I can subsribe to that thinking. I prefer to attend the EF but it is not because I have doubts about the validity of the OF.

Validity requires 4 things. Some of them must be presumed unless there is a good reason not to.

Valid matter - bread made from wheat flour & water and wine made from grapes.

Valid form - words of consecration as set down in the proper liturgical books (ie with approbation of the Holy See).

Valid ordination

Valid intention: to do what the Church intends.

There are other requirements for the Mass to be licit.

While I can agree all manner of fruity things go on in Brisbane and elsewhere in Queensland a general presumption (and assertion) of invalidity of (all/most?) Masses in that diocese is a serious matter.

As to the eastern rites, there is an EF celebration every Sunday in Brisbane at St Luke's Buranda.

Peter

Cardinal Pole said...

David:

The Coyne/aCatholic doctrine of Hell is this: that Hell is empty except for faithful Catholic Traditionalists.

Read this appalling comment from Mr. Coyne himself:

"My honest belief is NOT that the Church is going to become a remnant. I honestly expect there is going to be an enormous showdown somewhere down the track. Yes, there still will be a remnant there that will never let go of the Tridentine/Vatican I mindset, and like Islamic terrorists they eventually resort to chucking bombs in an endeavour to get their way. I don't doubt that that mindset is even shared by very high officials within Catholicism today. I don't believe Christ's promise of the longevity of the institution is vested with that segment of humanity though."
(my emphasis)

http://cumecclesia.blogspot.com/2008/06/and-last-one-before-heading-off-to-my.html

And people say that the S.S.P.X. is Apocalyptic!

Peter:

Despite the fact that a non-believer is even capable of baptising validly, the Parish in question appears incapable of doing so. That was what prompted the submission of these dubia to the C.D.F.:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20080201_validity-baptism_en.html

The Archdiocese of Brisbane is out of control.

Terra said...

I do think we need to be careful here - one abberrant parish doesn't mean every baptism and mass in the diocese is invalid.

Peter is correct to point out that it is valid if the standard requirements are met - I'd describe them as matter (what is used), form (words), proper minister, qualified recipient and intention.

The Brisbane 'baptisms' were invalid for want to correct form, not anythng else.

That said, many of the recipients of Holy Communion there are probably receiving invalidly, not having been baptised.

And given the reported adherence of the priests there to the heresy of congregationalism, expressed in things such as everyone present saying the Eucharistic Prayer, this is one of those rare cases where proper intention probably really is in question!

David said...

I apologise.

My comment about Uniate liturgies was an exaggeration for effect, nothing more.

My sole point was that the opinion that His Grace Abp Bathersby is a very very liberal Bishop is not confined to the curia. In fact, it's pretty widespread...

Of course the OF is valid. I attend it sometimes. Probably most OF Masses in Brisbane are valid. However, if a parish is notorious for ad-libbing the Eucharistic Prayer, you cannot be sure, when entering the Church at the start of Mass, that the priest will get the words of consecration right.

Secondly, the Archbishop seemed to be hinting that the St Mary's folk did not accept the divinity of Christ. That seems implicit in the question about whether they considered Jesus just another "holy man like Mohammed or Bhudda". Doubting Christ's divinity would certainly leave huge question marks over "validity of intention", no?